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Safety expert under fire as he defends Otley river decision
A SAFETY expert whose recommendations led to unpopular river fencing being installed in Otley has publicly defended the advice he gave.
Peter Cornall, Head of Leisure Safety for RoSPA (Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents), faced some tough questioning from Leeds City Council's (LCC) Scrutiny Board (Culture and Leisure) on Monday.
The board, investigating the decisions that led to the fencing scheme for Wharfemeadows, Tittybottle and Manor Garth parks being approved, repeatedly asked Mr Cornall to explain why Otley had been singled out'.
He told the meeting: "I've been to hundreds and hundreds of water sites and hand on heart can say I've not been to a public open space with such a big, dangerous weir with complete public access to it, anywhere else in the city.
"The reasons that make Otley different are that you have a public footpath right alongside the river and what is a trip hazard for small children. It's in the middle of a very public park, young people walk there on their way to school and parents take their young children there to feed the ducks.
"I went to the site three times and every time I saw young children, toddlers, more than an arm's reach from their parents. The fencing is designed to stop deliberate or accidental access by children under the age of five.
"There's no way I would recommend fencing off water willy-nilly, it's not a decision we take lightly."
Responding to a question from Councillor Graham Kirkland (Lib Dem, Otley and Yeadon), concerning the park's excellent safety record, he said: "You can't just go back and say there hasn't been a drowning in the last 20 or 30 years, because there could be one tomorrow."
That answer drew derision from Councillor Bernard Atha. He said: "We could be struck by meteorites! tomorrow.
"There's no way we can protect everybody from every possibility of an accident. To do that you destroy the amenity. I think some of the fencing has been sensible but most of it isn't necessary and the statistics show it hasn't been necessary up to now."
7:29pm Tuesday 13th November 2007
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CommentPosted by: William Shears, Bradford on 7:46pm Thu 15 Nov 07
Who decided that this Peter Cornall is a safety expert? Does he have qualifications? I have looked on the RoSPA website and couldn't find any biography of this so-called "expert". Neither could I find one else on the internet. Does he have the skills, training, and experience that make him an "expert"? Have his predictions been shown to be accurate in the past? Is he head of leisure safety because he was most suited for the job, or is he a more or less self-appointed "expert" with insufficient "expertise".
He claims that the fencing of the river is necessary because of the possibility of an unprecedented death. But in another article, he says that canoing is still safe despite the death of a nine year old girl (http://news.bbc.co.
uk/1/hi/wales/490803
6.stm) In that article he says "I'm a canoeist". So, he's allowed to take his own risks, but the rest of us should have our enjoyment of life ruined by his bonkers approach to "health and safety". What a hypocrite!
Who decided that this Peter Cornall is a safety expert? Does he have qualifications? I have looked on the RoSPA website and couldn't find any biography of this so-called "expert". Neither could I find one else on the internet. Does he have the skills, training, and experience that make him an "expert"? Have his predictions been shown to be accurate in the past? Is he head of leisure safety because he was most suited for the job, or is he a more or less self-appointed "expert" with insufficient "expertise".
He claims that the fencing of the river is necessary because of the possibility of an unprecedented death. But in another article, he says that canoing is still safe despite the death of a nine year old girl (http://news.bbc.co.
uk/1/hi/wales/490803
6.stm) In that article he says "I'm a canoeist". So, he's allowed to take his own risks, but the rest of us should have our enjoyment of life ruined by his bonkers approach to "health and safety". What a hypocrite!
Posted by: William Shears, Bradford on 7:48pm Thu 15 Nov 07
That link should be.
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/wales/4908036
.stm
That link should be.
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/wales/4908036
.stm
Posted by: "Wildswimmer&
quot; Pete Roberts, Runcorn on 10:05pm Thu 15 Nov 07
Yes, the same Peter Cornall who regards around eight drownings a year amongst canoeists to be somehow acceptable, yet who persues a fanatical campaign to stamp out open water swimming on account of, yes, about eight drownings per year amongst OW swimmers. RoSPA in general, and Cornall in particular, are regarded with contempt by the open-water community. Thankfully, the wide publicity over the Wharfemeadows fiasco shows up RoSPA for what they are. It's also lifted the stone on their cosy relationship with officialdom.
Yes, the same Peter Cornall who regards around eight drownings a year amongst canoeists to be somehow acceptable, yet who persues a fanatical campaign to stamp out open water swimming on account of, yes, about eight drownings per year amongst OW swimmers. RoSPA in general, and Cornall in particular, are regarded with contempt by the open-water community. Thankfully, the wide publicity over the Wharfemeadows fiasco shows up RoSPA for what they are. It's also lifted the stone on their cosy relationship with officialdom.
Posted by: Steve Thompson, Expat, Canberra, Australia on 3:31am Fri 16 Nov 07
Sorry Mr Cornall, you are a Nincompoop. Otley doesnt need you or your recommendations.
Sorry Mr Cornall, you are a Nincompoop. Otley doesnt need you or your recommendations.
Posted by: Ian, Otley on 3:18pm Fri 16 Nov 07
Calm down everyone. I live beside the river and I was a bit dubious when I heard about the fencing but I actually think it looks ok. Furthermore - I have 2 daughters and I can understand the guy exactly when he mentions the potential for accident, especially when it comes to young children. In my opinion you should all get a life and find something a little more worthwhile to worry about, never mind a fence round a bloody river!!!
Calm down everyone. I live beside the river and I was a bit dubious when I heard about the fencing but I actually think it looks ok. Furthermore - I have 2 daughters and I can understand the guy exactly when he mentions the potential for accident, especially when it comes to young children. In my opinion you should all get a life and find something a little more worthwhile to worry about, never mind a fence round a bloody river!!!
Posted by: William Shears, Bradford on 9:33am Sun 18 Nov 07
Ian, a large amount of public money was spent on that fence to relieve a claimed, but not supported by evidence, safety risk. If that money hadn't been wasted on that unnecessary fence building, then it could have been used elsewhere, to reduce real risks to your daughters, or to improve their likely quality of life in other ways.
I'm a parent of a young child myself, and am aware that there are many risks to their health and livelihood.
Furthermore, you seem to be in a minority of Otley residents if you feel that the fencing "looks OK". If it were just one or two people who, according to you, need "a life", then there wouldn't be the controversy there is now.
Ian, a large amount of public money was spent on that fence to relieve a claimed, but not supported by evidence, safety risk. If that money hadn't been wasted on that unnecessary fence building, then it could have been used elsewhere, to reduce real risks to your daughters, or to improve their likely quality of life in other ways.
I'm a parent of a young child myself, and am aware that there are many risks to their health and livelihood.
Furthermore, you seem to be in a minority of Otley residents if you feel that the fencing "looks OK". If it were just one or two people who, according to you, need "a life", then there wouldn't be the controversy there is now.
Posted by: Wildswimmer Pete Roberts, Runcorn, Cheshire on 10:13am Mon 19 Nov 07
Ian, wouldn't it be easier just ensure that your two daughters can...errr.....swim? Or has Leeds CC followed the example of many other local authorities and closed down local swimming pools?
I'm a child of the Sixties and in my day we didn't have any of the fear of water actively promoted by RoSPA (for its own gain) and its buddies in the Environment Agency.
Funny how the safety Nazis overlook the REAL rivers of death - the ones of tarmac. I'm far more concerned about childrens' (and adult) safety having to walk along these without the protection of subsatntial fencing. As for having to cross them........!
Should anyone wish to risk terminal boredom by reading the RoSPA report (although some of it is quite hilarious" you will see they also want to have the Wharfe New Year's Day Dip smthered under a tide of H&S red tape. I'm a keen winter swimmer and there's nothing I'd like better than to be able to turn up and take part....and present a fully extended index finger to both RoSPA and Leeds CC!!!
Ian, wouldn't it be easier just ensure that your two daughters can...errr.....swim? Or has Leeds CC followed the example of many other local authorities and closed down local swimming pools?
I'm a child of the Sixties and in my day we didn't have any of the fear of water actively promoted by RoSPA (for its own gain) and its buddies in the Environment Agency.
Funny how the safety Nazis overlook the REAL rivers of death - the ones of tarmac. I'm far more concerned about childrens' (and adult) safety having to walk along these without the protection of subsatntial fencing. As for having to cross them........!
Should anyone wish to risk terminal boredom by reading the RoSPA report (although some of it is quite hilarious" you will see they also want to have the Wharfe New Year's Day Dip smthered under a tide of H&S red tape. I'm a keen winter swimmer and there's nothing I'd like better than to be able to turn up and take part....and present a fully extended index finger to both RoSPA and Leeds CC!!!
Posted by: Mark Thompson, Bristol on 4:18pm Sun 25 Nov 07
ROSPA recommended we fence off Henleaze Lake about 10 years ago. We completely ignored them as it was such a stupid idea. So far 10 years on we have had no incidents with the Lake unfenced. We had to remove our 10 metre diving stage because of new regulations even though it had been used for 70 years again with no major incidents. Keep kicking against the ****!
ROSPA recommended we fence off Henleaze Lake about 10 years ago. We completely ignored them as it was such a stupid idea. So far 10 years on we have had no incidents with the Lake unfenced. We had to remove our 10 metre diving stage because of new regulations even though it had been used for 70 years again with no major incidents. Keep kicking against the ****!
Posted by: Ian, Otley on 8:29am Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Wildswimmer Pete Roberts[/bold] wrote:
Ian, wouldn\'t it be easier just ensure that your two daughters can...errr.....swim? Or has Leeds CC followed the example of many other local authorities and closed down local swimming pools? I\'m a child of the Sixties and in my day we didn\'t have any of the fear of water actively promoted by RoSPA (for its own gain) and its buddies in the Environment Agency. Funny how the safety Nazis overlook the REAL rivers of death - the ones of tarmac. I\'m far more concerned about childrens\' (and adult) safety having to walk along these without the protection of subsatntial fencing. As for having to cross them........! Should anyone wish to risk terminal boredom by reading the RoSPA report (although some of it is quite hilarious\" you will see they also want to have the Wharfe New Year\'s Day Dip smthered under a tide of H&S red tape. I\'m a keen winter swimmer and there\'s nothing I\'d like better than to be able to turn up and take part....and present a fully extended index finger to both RoSPA and Leeds CC!!![/quote] hee hee, absolutely amazing over reaction and exaggeration.
'Safety nazis' ha ha ha, 'child of the 60s' hee hee. I'd love to see you swim in the river wharfe in winter!!!
Could be the next big thing in local sport! Careful clambering over that nice fence though ;-)
Wildswimmer Pete Roberts wrote:
Ian, wouldn\'t it be easier just ensure that your two daughters can...errr.....swim? Or has Leeds CC followed the example of many other local authorities and closed down local swimming pools? I\'m a child of the Sixties and in my day we didn\'t have any of the fear of water actively promoted by RoSPA (for its own gain) and its buddies in the Environment Agency. Funny how the safety Nazis overlook the REAL rivers of death - the ones of tarmac. I\'m far more concerned about childrens\' (and adult) safety having to walk along these without the protection of subsatntial fencing. As for having to cross them........! Should anyone wish to risk terminal boredom by reading the RoSPA report (although some of it is quite hilarious\" you will see they also want to have the Wharfe New Year\'s Day Dip smthered under a tide of H&S red tape. I\'m a keen winter swimmer and there\'s nothing I\'d like better than to be able to turn up and take part....and present a fully extended index finger to both RoSPA and Leeds CC!!!
hee hee, absolutely amazing over reaction and exaggeration.
'Safety nazis' ha ha ha, 'child of the 60s' hee hee. I'd love to see you swim in the river wharfe in winter!!!
Could be the next big thing in local sport! Careful clambering over that nice fence though ;-)
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